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I have very little patience for 'difficult' stuff made by difficult people. And I basically loathe art that's intended to display the brilliance of the auteur. But Kanye (when he's on his game) absolutely transcends both of those problems. It's all about his arrogance and his insecurities and his talent - and it's amazing.
"Difficult" music is something I don't get. Music is made to be enjoyed. Its silly that I'm looked down on because I have a distaste for music that's intentionally harder to enjoy.
I agree with this, but I don't consider Kayne to be "difficult". It's pretty accessible, IMO
Its silly that I'm looked down on because I have a distaste for music that's intentionally harder to enjoy.
I don't see anyone in this thread looking down on you for that. Do you look down on them for liking things you don't?
My criticism was entirely over that term, "difficult" music. Because when somebody uses it they're implying that you wouldn't get it because your not good enough at thinking about music.
I think Kanye is awesome, particularly his early stuff, and moreover right about most of the things he's gotten in trouble for (on the lighter side of those issues, Beyonce's video WAS several million times better than Taylor Swift's).
He jumped on stage and yanked the mike out of the hand of a 20 year old girl at her first MTV awards show.
I mostly see it in reference to things that really are difficult. Like Wild Man Fischer or early Negativland. Like, I'm not going to criticize anyone for not enjoying The Shaggs. It took me years of practice!
I mean, yes, it was obnoxious. But c'mon.
Here's how I see it. Throw everything else out the window. A grown ass man jumped on stage with a 20 year old girl and took the microphone out of her hand and told her she didn't deserve the award she was getting. Everything else is irrelevant. He should feel some shame over that.
And Hitler was a great painter.
He could paint an entire apartment in ONE afternoon! TWO coats!
Of course he should; Kanye's a jackass. But he's a very talented jackass.
Soo... no interest in the Dodgers?
Yep. I had little desire to ever listen to his music before that. But that episode pretty much decided that I'd never give it a chance...
However, Led Zeppelin was rumored to have cut up a groupie and fed her to sharks.
You know what? Just Google "mudshark incident" for yourself.
Do not do this. The truth is much, much worse. And it leads to the scopes page, which leads to other messed up stuff, and before you know it your brain is changed and your soul blackened. DO NOT DO THIS.
I hear it a lot in Lennon v McCartney post Beatles. That Lennon's music is better because its more difficult, and I only prefer McCartney and Wings because I only superficially like music. I get Lennon's stuff fine, but just the fact that Lennon worked more sub textually doesn't make the music more enjoyable on its own.
I don't see more subtext in Lennon's solo work at all. Plastic Ono Band had subtext? Imagine had subtext? 90% of what he wrote solo was heart on your sleeve stuff. If it wasn't, you knew it was about Yoko anyway. Lennon was probably thought more authentic because he bared his emotions, while McCartney didn't like to reveal his emotions as much, was seen as writing silly pop songs, etc. But there was nothing difficult at all about Lennon's solo work.
Now imagine living in the same city as the Edgewater Inn and thinking about it every time you drive past the hotel!
The clear dissatisfaction with who he is - combined with the inability to stop being the person that he is - is precisely the perpetual frissance that makes his best work possible. See: "Runaway" which was premiered as a sort of response to the incident, but which ends up being about much much more. That is a deep, tremendously affecting, beautiful song. While simultaneously being a song built around the chorus 'let's have a toast to the ##########.' He's not apologizing or justifying, but is doing something a lot more interesting: giving us a window into what drives the sort of perfectionist that he is.
He has equals (and perhaps betters) as a rapper
Perhaps?! I think he's enormously talented, but there are definitely better rappers out there.
And if you dare start talking about the mushmouthed, flowless Biggie Smalls this conversation is over before it begins (I feel like I'm in crazy town every time I hear someone talking about how great he was when he was almost completely devoid of talent).
Hell, Eminem is a much more talented rapper than Kanye.
Em to me has gotten steadily more ordinary to me the more he moves away from his Slim Shady persona.
There's simply no precedent in hip-hop for someone having the sustained career he's had while mostly making his own music.
I don't think it makes me a bad person to say that I couldn't care less about Taylor Swift's feelings. Kanye was right about Beyoncé's video, and he was a jackass to do what he did ... but so what? I don't care. Taylor Swift can handle herself and doesn't need the White Knight brigade to cry for her.
Wow I had no idea Rakim was doing that stuff back in '87. (I just heard "I Ain't No Joke" for the first time.)
Her youth only served to emphasize to me that Kanye's actions were probably a little more cowardly and bully like than if he'd done it to someone who could legally drink.
I also think being good at both and being in control each, gives him a bit of synergy at getting the two to fit together in just the way wants.
I've read something exactly like this before, except it was by Bret Easton Ellis and heavily sarcastic.
Apparently Ellis and Kanye are working on some kind of film script together, sounds like a train wreck of douchiness waiting to happen, whatever it might be.
I don't see it like that, because Taylor herself was basically collateral damage anyway. His real wrath wasn't towards her, but the MTV people who screwed Beyoncé over. He wasn't standing up to her, but the powers that be, so I don't see it as all that cowardly or bullyish. It just looked that way because, you know, Taylor Swift and her very polished ingénue image.
Rakim's high point was in 1987! (I'm calling "Paid in Full" his high point, as well as one of the high points of hip hop in general)
I don't doubt it. What I meant was that I didn't know anyone at all was rapping like that back in 87.
Anyway, Kanye is a true visionary
Ah! Well, the good news is that it was pretty much just Rakim. Until "Paid in Full" came out and everyone realized that there could be things called "flow" and "interesting lyrics."
I don't think it makes me a bad person to say that I couldn't care less about Taylor Swift's feelings.
I typically don't cry for people who make more money than me.
I've been a hiphop head since 1986 and I can assure you - Kanye West is by far the most relevant rapper of the last decade.
But there was nothing difficult at all about Lennon's solo work.
Dang it, my toaster time machine brought me to some alternative now where Slick Rick never existed. Well I guess I'll stick around until the next donut rain and try again.
Oh now give me a break. KRS-ONE was a far greater MC, probably the best ever, and produced most of his own stuff.
(This is a weird discussion to be having in 2013)
Kanye's a jackass. But he's a very talented jackass.
Kool Moe Dee knows more about it than I do, but ranking Melle Mel as the greatest ever is like calling Buck Freeman the greatest baseball player ever.
Out of legitimate curiosity: where does KMD rank his one-time rival LL Cool J?
Dr. Dre never comes up in these discussions (best producers/MCs). Of course he may never have a written a single one of his lyrics, but strictly as a rapper, he could more than hold his own.
"Nuthin' but a 'G' Thang" is the Don Larsen's perfect game of hip hop--it alone puts Dr. Dre in the consideration set, regardless of whatever else he did in his career.
Who remembers that about him anymore
Nuthin' but a 'G' Thang" is the Don Larsen's perfect game of hip hop--it alone puts Dr. Dre in the consideration set, regardless of whatever else he did in his career.
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