Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
“I didn’t see Kirby Puckett as a Hall of Famer. I didn’t see Gary Carter as a Hall of Famer. I didn’t see Don Sutton as a Hall of Famer. I didn’t see Phil Niekro as a Hall of Famer. As much as I like Jim Rice, I’m not so sure he’s a Hall of Famer.”
“No. No, no, no, no. Blyleven wasn’t even the dominant pitcher of his era, it was Jack Morris.”
Gary Carter strikes me as the odd man out of that group.
Reggie thinks he's inner-circle, doesn't he?
Looking at the above numbers - some traditional stats, some SABR stats - it is quite clear that Gary Carter was a better catcher than Carlton Fisk, both in terms of peak value and career value.
The party line seems to be that Gary Carter's so-so season with the Giants and his identically meh season with the Dodgers torpedoed his candidacy with west coast voters. Why that's supposed to be a solid and sensible BBWAA alibi, who knows?
Gary Carter: 3 Gold Gloves (Led in catcher TZ runs 5 yrs running 1979-83, ranks 4th all time career), 2 seasons 30+ HRs and 7 others with 20+ HRs, 4 seasons 100+ RBI, led league in RBI 1984, selected to 11 AS games (AS MVP 1981,1984) , 1.93 Career shares MVP including 2 top 3 finishes (1980, 1986), Total career WAR 66.4, peak seasons 5+ WAR every year from 1977-85 except '81 (strike year - prorated over 162g season is also over 5 WAR), led NL WAR 1982, also durable - led in catchers games played 6 years consecutive 1977-82, career postseason 0.280/0.320/0.466 including 4 HRs, 11R and 21 RBI in 30 games
Carlton Fisk: 1 Gold Glove (never led in TZ runs, ranks 41st all time career for catchers), 1 season 30+ HRs plus 7 others with 20+ HRs, 2 seasons 100+ RBI (never led league), selected to 11 AS games (never MVP), 1.27 Career shares MVP (1 season top 3 1983), Total career WAR 63.7, peak seasons only 3 times over 5 WAR (never led league), led catchers games played twice (1977-78), career postseason 0.259/0.355/0.407 including 2 HRs, 9R and 6 RBI in 14 games
Seems like bad form to knock other members after they have been admitted to the fraternity.
During the tail ends of their careers both Sutton and Niekro's HOF chances were considered with open skepticism by baseball reporters who considered their 300 wins the result of sticking around the game too long for that specific goal
[Carter's] best years weren't any better than Fisk's
Fisk was a contemporary who played longer AND had better rate stats. 117 OPS for Fisk to 115 for Carter in 200 more games?
Carter, then, Fisk, best years by BBWAR;
8.3, 7.2, 6.8, 6.6, 6.2, 5.8, 5.6, 5.2
7.0, 6.7, 5.6, 4.7, 3.9, 3.6, 3.6, 3.1
know a lot of people question defensive metrics out in the field (is something being biased by groundball or flyball pitchers, righties/lefties, etc.) but I'm genuinely curious what basis anyone would have to conclude that Fisk was a better defensive catcher than Carter.
When it comes to athlete's murdering their girlfriends, OJ is the obvious leader in the clubhouse.
I believe Bill James a long time ago went on record as saying that if handling pitchers in a game could be quantified Fisk would definitely move up. Young catchers, even Bench and Berra, come up with a big learning curve ahead of them, but Fisk even when he was young had a rep for being savvy and knowing how to call a game and how to handle pitchers. I think that would be the case for Fisk having extra on defense compared to some other great catchers.
What do you think Sutton and Neikro might have to say to Reggie at the next HoF dinner/induction ceremony they attend?
impossible for him to imagine him killing them with his bare hands because he was so compulsive about cleanliness.
You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.
Login to Join (3 members)
Page rendered in 0.5786 seconds, 57 querie(s) executed