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At last! DH's are finally not considered "real players". All it took was one of them criticizing a sacred cow.
DH's are finally not considered "real players".
So, which is worse... taking illegal drugs to perform better or taking illegal drugs that will make you perform worse? As a fan I'd prefer players who try to do better myself. Ideally they don't touch the illegal stuff, but if they must then use the stuff that makes you better.
John, the quote by Bonds speculating the fans didn't care about them is wrong. Fans clearly do care about them. There is no complaint at all about Clemens and Bonds and McGwire not making the hall. Most fans approve of that. Most writers approve of that.
“I don’t think they would impose such a severe suspension.
Fans care cuz the media keeps telling them they should care.
Disappointing. You forgot to call the people who disagree with you "sheeple". Work on it.
And why is the NFL so popular?
I like MLB because of the ways it differs from the NFL. An NFL game is a sado-masochistic spectacle, not a sporting event. You can have the NFL.
And, if you put Gladiators on TV hacking each other to death with swords and axes, you'd get the best ratings ever.
If fans cared about Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, etc., being excluded from the Hall, you'd hear about it.
So the only reason UFC ratings are a shadow of other sports is they only show limbs being snapped?
If fans care so much, how would you explain the huge surge in attendance when homers were flying out of ballparks like never before? Or the ones that came to games hours early just to watch guys who used to be 50 pounds lighter like McGwire and Sosa take batting practice? And why is the NFL so popular? Do you honestly believe fans are so stupid that they don't/didn't know what was going on? No. They ignored it cuz no one was forcing them to address it by bringing it up every 10 minutes.
Dude. I was there.
And yet, we still get the "maple bats, smaller ballparks, tighter ball" nonsense as a daily staple right here to this very day.
Because home run rates now are the same as they were then.
If by Sillyball, do you mean players are still juicing? Obviously they are.
With football, it was probably early seventies.
But baseball is different. Fans like the history, the statistics, the pastoral imagery. Making it more like football ruins it for a lot of fans.
So was I. My oldest brother was a big time weightlighter/steroid user back then and when the McGwire/Andro story broke, he basically laughed and said that Andro is just candy and McGwire is almost surely using something a lot stronger than that.
It blows my mind that anyone who was even vaguely familiar with sports history could claim to be shocked that there were PED's in baseball, or any other sport.
And again, how does the "we had no idea!" excuse work for the current NFL, now that the cat has been out of the bag in MLB for a decade? Why does each sport need it's own individual scandal before people can put 2+2 together and conclude that if steroids are rampant in one sport, then they probably are in other sports that require many of the same skills PED's are said to enhance (strength, speed, durability, etc)? Are fans really that stupid or naive? Or are they like the leagues themselves - perfectly willing to just sit back and enjoy the ride until a major scandal breaks and forces them to address the issue?
Anyway, I think it's awfully disingenuous to blame the FANS for not seeing what players were doing in privately and trying to keep as secret as possible. It's like Homer Simpson telling Marge, "It takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen"
More home runs in his final four years - ages 38-41 and 1995-1998 than in his first four years - ages 21-24, 1978-1981.
So 'naive' is probably a better word to use.
Hard to call a 15-homer peak of a veteran in the late 90s significantly greater than the 9-homer peak of a young player in the late 70s, especially considering the context of the eras.
Career high in games played as a 39 year old in 1996.
The sillyball era is just a generic nickname and you're free to attach whatever beginning or end points you want to it, but HR rates have definitely gone down a bit. The 3 lowest seasons of the last 20 years have all come in the last 4 years.
YEAR BABIP BAOC ISOC HRR1988 .285 .306 .155 34.41989 .288 .307 .145 38.11990 .287 .307 .152 36.11991 .288 .309 .160 33.51992 .285 .305 .148 37.0 YEAR BABIP BAOC ISOC HRR1993 .294 .316 .168 31.5
YEAR BABIP BAOC ISOC HRR1994 .299 .326 .193 26.01995 .298 .324 .188 26.81996 .304 .333 .202 24.01997 .302 .329 .192 25.91998 .302 .329 .195 25.81999 .302 .331 .199 24.62000 .303 .332 .202 24.22001 .297 .324 .196 25.62002 .292 .319 .195 26.02003 .294 .321 .193 26.02004 .300 .328 .198 24.92005 .296 .322 .189 26.72006 .305 .332 .196 25.52007 .305 .330 .186 28.52008 .302 .327 .186 28.12009 .300 .329 .199 24.72010 .296 .320 .181 28.42011 .294 .320 .186 27.52012 .293 .322 .197 24.52013 .296 .324 .192 25.6AVE .299 .326 .193 26.0
Look, not everyone was a gym rat or knew the ins and outs of weight training. Given the absence of reporting on the issue, it's hard to call them naive.
I remember Walt or Guy or someone showing that this is entirely due to increased strikeouts, which doesn't really seem to have much to do with steroids.
The point about how if player x uses PED's then all others feel the pressure is a good point though. Game of Shadows showed this issue clearly as it said Bonds pretty much felt no choice after the McGwire/Sosa HR chase...that if he wanted to be elite he would have to do PED's
since MLB and the media and fans didn't care one iota about them at the time
It is really not that hard, unless you are under the impression that home runs increased by 66%, and dont see any question marks in the aging curve.
Went back to 1988. using only the AL -- my preference because it avoids all of the Colorado complications. (Also took out pitcher's batting)
I'm just a bit floored that so many people are claiming they had absolutely no idea and it was such an enormous shock when they found out.
was clay aiken even ever IN the closet??? meaning he fronted straight?
ok, let me explain again. There was a LOT of discussion about the inflated offensive numbers in the mid-90s and most fans fell back on known explanations that had historical precedent
1) 1987 rabbit ball revisited
2) Park effects, esp. Colorado and newer, smaller parks
3) Expansion-diluted pitching
4) Tighter strike zones being called (exc Glavine, of course)
5) Better weight training (i.e. simply working out more)
The impression that I am under is that error bars increase as sample sizes decrease. Going from 9 to 15 is not the same thing as going from 36 to 60.
What's the prevailing theory on why K rates have increased?
Certainly possible. I actually wasn't even trying to give an opinion on why I thought HR rates were down; I was just disputing Thickie's claim that they weren't. They pretty clearly are, for whatever reason.
What's the prevailing theory on why K rates have increased?
Well depends how you define home run rates.
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