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Apparently, WAR is now the perfect statistic, and players should be judged exclusively by that metric.
I don't see Thomas lack of election as any indication of changing standards, as you have pointed out, crowded ballot figures into it.
He missed it by 38 votes on his first ballot. He was pretty close to getting in.
Like I said, Biggio and Piazza are only enough to make me suspect that standards have risen for sillyball era players. But if guys with overwhelming first ballot credentials like Thomas and Glavine don't make it - or if Maddux gets significantly lower percentages than the Ryan/Brett/Ripken types - then it'll be confirmed in my mind. Hopefully the current Gizmo percentages hold up. Electing Thomas and Glavine on the first ballot, Biggio on his 2nd, and Maddux being near unanimous would go a long ways towards convincing me that voters are at least trying to be fair and consistent.
this reeks of arrogance and hubris.
Yay WAR! Yawn.
Really? Outside of Andruw Jones, who were these great defenders?
Now there's certainly reasonable arguments to be made that, from a value perspective or an advanced metrics perspective, relievers still are not worthy of the HOF, but I think it is worth recognizing them, and it's a good thing the voters are trying to figure out how and whom to recognize.
I rate out defensive adjustment, because I think that they are massively over stated in most systems.
And as Sosh is pointing out, the large quantity of deserving candidates is skewing the results more than any changing standards would mean.
As we have been arguing in one way or another on the boards is that there is legitimately 14+ candidates and outside of Maddux, there isn't a clear top candidates.
it flies in the face of the American psyche which has a long history of forgiveness.
I think that WAR is the cumulative impact of all the useful and meaningful metrics that exist to measure the impact of a player's performance.
In the case of Glavine WAR does not pick up his "hockey pluckiness" that is such a big part, along with Andruw Jones, of why Glavine did so well with a poor strikeout rate.
The Kenny Rogers bashing is a bit unfair. He doesn't belong in the HOF, but just going by the numbers, he doesn't belong in the Hall any less than any of the guys in the 2 and 3 point tiers.
The Kenny Rogers bashing is a bit unfair.
I bet if Bonds or Clemens got up and said: "I cheated, it was wrong, and my performance/stats were artificially inflated over what they otherwise would have been.", they'd be forgiven, and elected in short order.
Nothing says more about how the BBWAA would react if given "guidance by the HoF" on handling PED users than what happened with regard to Pete Rose. The HoF and MLB were skewered for taking the decision on Rose out of the hands of the voting population. They'd be raked over the coals again for taking the decision on guys who were never even disciplined by MLB for their transgressions out of the hands of the voting population, and they'd be attacked even worse if they gave explicit guidance that those players were to be judged on their on-field performance without regard to their possible PED usage.
The guardians of morality want to punish the users, but don't want the accountability of being the ones issuing the punishment - so they whine about "needing guidance from the HoF" so that they can be taken off the hook. Personally I think the HoF and MLB are being smart by "not" taking any action, one way or the other, even if it does contribute to the situation we have now, because it makes it all too clear who the real culprits are.
The voters do not want "guidance". They want the Hall to give "guidance" to the people who disagree with them.
this is actually a polarizing issue, the BTF position notwithstanding.
You must be talking about some other BTF.
169: Booey have you looked at the backlog and the ballot strength for those first ballot guys you mentioned? I have a hunch if you do, you'll find both the backlog and the debut candidates were probably pretty weak.
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