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Not sure if this was a thing during his career or I'm just picking up on this due to the fact that I'm watching old PPV broadcasts on surround sound speakers but Mick Foley calls out a lot of the moves in his matches really loudly. I can regularly hear him directing his opponent "chair shot," "clothesline," :piledriver" etc.
-I haven't thought about Taz in over a decade so I forgot that he debuted at Rumble '00. I think when this PPV initially happened I used to read 4wrestling.com and I had just kinda/sorta discovered ECW and thought Taz and RVD were the most amazing wrestlers ever. Taz's debut blew my mind back then and was still great now. The crowd gave a huge pop and he had a short but effective match with Angle that established his gimmick and gave a taste of what he could do in the ring. I'm pretty sure this is the highlight of his (wasted) WWF career though so that really sucks.
does brodus clay still do that? (is brodus clay still around?)
but Mick Foley calls out a lot of the moves in his matches really loudly. I can regularly hear him directing his opponent "chair shot," "clothesline," :piledriver" etc.
How much of each match is scripted vs improvised?
-I've always been a Stone Cold guy, but The Rock has (more or less) been 1B for 15 months now and (in part due to staying healthier) is showing a lot more in-ring development. I feel like by the time I'm done with this I'm going to change into a Rock was the GOAT guy. He's unquestionably the best ever on the mic. Well, with the possible exception of Flair, so let's call that a tie.
I've thought about this some recently. Rock is, pretty clearly to me, the most charismatic guy on the mic ever. But I feel like sometimes he misses on translating that into a good wrestling promo, if that makes sense.
Watching all this old stuff has actually made me think Rock's peak was longer than I thought. It sounded/felt like he was really over from late '97 to early '98. By mid-late '98 they were going out of their way to try to find ways to make people boo him and yet every time he would ready The People's Elbow the crowd was going nuts and the camera flashes looked like McGwire-Sosa.
Austin's post Owen breaking his neck wrestling style (granted, not his fault) isn't exactly great.
I remember him having some really good, less brawling based matches in 2001 with Benoit/Jericho/Angle.
God bless you for watching those 99 PPV; I remember 15 year old me really struggled through some of them.
I think the style of matches in the late 90s WWE was overall the worst style, other than maybe early 80s WWE, for which extensive video records still exist.
ever heard of CZW?
Yeah, I don't totally get the internet hate for Cena.
If he gets to the 99-00 WCW ones, I think we should send help.
WCW's Highway to Hell, one many's flirtation with insanity as he watches all of WCW (not just ppv) from January 1999 to the end.
I've linked to this before, but it's so great it's always worth mentioning again - WCW's Highway to Hell, one many's flirtation with insanity as he watches all of WCW (not just ppv) from January 1999 to the end.
And the point about the weight limit is a good one. 265 is a tough target for Lesar.
#87 Couture at that time was in a odd position. He had lost 3 straight at light-heavy and then returned to heavyweight and beat a fairly weak champion (Sylvia) and followed it up with a win over Gonzaga -- an underrated opponent (it was really supposed to be Kro Kop, but Gonzaga spoiled the party) but a good matchup for Couture.
But really Couture was probably the best matchup that Lesar could have asked for. His striking is generally underrated but was never likely to be a danger to Lesnar and Couture really didn't have the submission skills a smaller man needs for a man as powerful as Lesnar. Yeah it counts, but even i his prime Couture would have matched up poorly with Lesnar.
#136 I think Sylvia get discounted because he's a weak champion. Pretty fair striker but no ground game and didn't have the skills to keep the fight standing.
#146 I think it was more a disagreement about contract terms than either side ducking.
My favorite thing about this era: 5 straight WCW heavyweight champions lost the belt without losing a match (3 strips, one injury, and one guy left the company).
(well, I guess Foley as well, but he was just nuts).
Foley claims that he was very particular about the bumps he would take. He recently said on Austin's podcast that he wouldn't ever take bumps on his head or neck, and that for the really big spots, he would leave it up to himself rather than letting someone "do" the spot to him
Foley also repeatedly claimed that the fall through the cell was an unplanned spot.
He recently said on Austin's podcast that he wouldn't ever take bumps on his head or neck, and that for the really big spots
Was this recently? I don;'t think I caught that one. Austin had Heyman on last week for a two parter; I can't recommend it enough. He also says he's gonna have Vince and Taker on coming up.
I think the most telling thing about late period WCW was that, when the WWE bought them out, they chose to let a lot of the wrestlers just sit at home rather than come wrestle. The contracts were so bad, it made more sense just to pay them than to bring them over and muck with what was (at the time) a promotion riding high. Which is too bad, because the Invasion angle could have been one for the ages if they had done it right (but that would have required a big ego step-back from Vince, and at that point, his roided up 55-year-old body was having none of that; he was going to bury everyone ever associated with WCW, and he had his extra big shovel out for the job).
and the invasion storyline was never going to work.
and the invasion storyline was never going to work.
That badly malformed PPV is still one of the best buyrates WWE has ever done
I think it could have worked. Having Shane McMahon represent WCW when we were already suffering McMahon fatigue was a nail in the coffin. I think that was actually a bigger problem than the group of guys they brought in. If they had added one or two more big names (instead of having Austin and Angle defect) to the group of Booker T, DDP, Rob Van Dam, Tazz, Raven, and Kidman (plus the guys who were already in WWE at the time, like the Dudleys, Benoit, Eddie, Malenko), that would have been more than enough star power.
At the time, was it a shock that the WWF so readily pushed Benoit to Main Event status?
Part of it is that the reaction to getting Benoit, Malenko, Guerrero and Saturn was so instantaneous. You will never see a more frenzied crowd than the one watching this match (posted in two parts on YouTube). This took place one week after their arrival in WWF.
I know I'm in the IWC minority regarding he invasion but what I think killed it was the ECW involvement. The war was never Wwf vs wcw vs ECW. ECW was a niche promotion and had no business in the storyline. Vince really needed to bite the bullet and buyout and sign a couple marquee Wcw guys. Just adding flair(who debuted literally the day after the invasion ended), Steiner, and sting (along with the existing booker and ddp) gives you a 5 on 5 match with actual wcw guys of note. The problem is once bagwell/booker bombed HARD as their test run for a separate relaunched wcw they turned every wcw (and eventually "alliance" guy heel and it wasn't special anymore
#148 Oh I get what you're saying.
But the UFC would have been happy to have Emelianenko on their own terms.
Emelianenko is far from the only elite fighter that they did not have due to Dana White and company's hard line in negotiations.
And in the end, they pretty much outlasted all of the important competition and pretty much got things their way.
4. HHH vs. Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Stone Cold vs. Kurt Angle vs. Rikishi, Armageddon '00 (Just a complete mess with no memorable moments. Seemed like an excuse just to see how many guys they can have blade in one match)
The UFC's biggest stars are all gone - GSP, Brock Lesnar, and Anderson Silva. The most recent show from last weekend, broadcast on a major network and featuring a #1 contenders bout for a heavyweight title shot, drew the lowest ratings of any broadcast UFC since they since their contract with FOX. Here are their PPV buyrates confirming the promotions current lack of star power and waning fan interest. MMA is a naturally entertaining and thrilling sport, and Zuffa and their PR puppet Dana White have done their best to flush it down the drain. The fact that the promotion has used the last 7 or so years to promote Dana White as the face of the sport speaks for itself.
the UFC is overexposed right now, but the sport is in great shape.
When Road Dogg Jesse James and "Bad Ass" Billy Gunn lost the WWF Tag Team Championship to The Corporation, they tried their hand at singles wrestling for some time with Gunn failing in his attempts to win the WWF Intercontinental Championship, but Road Dogg becoming Hardcore Champion until an injury prevented him from honouring a championship match with Al Snow who ended up fighting himself, and then Bob Holly for the vacant belt at St. Valentine's Day Massacre: In Your House with the latter winning the title at the banks of the Mississippi River. When Road Dogg won the Intercontinental Championship on Raw is War Gunn fought Bob Holly (now Hardcore Holly) and won when Holly crashed into an ad-hoc announce table Jim Ross had constructed for his pirate broadcast of the show. Holly felt enraged that circumstances had conspired against him, while Snow still wanted another chance at the belt.
The sport is in the worst shape it's been in a decade. Casual fan interest has plummeted to boxing-like levels - ask anyone to name any UFC champion they can think of. The Japanese MMA scene which once supported thriving and influential promotions as dissimilar as Pancrase, Shooto, RINGS, K-1, and PRIDE has dried up. The UFC has abandoned any pretense of operating as a sporting organization and openly functions as a "sports entertainment" enterprise with successful but dull fighters being cast out of their exclusive walled garden (Jake Shields,Jon Fitch,Yushin Okami, free disparaging comments from Dana White on your way out the door). Loud, obnoxious fighters who spout racist insults,commit fraud, and crib their interviews from pro-wrestlers can lose 4 out of their last 7 fights and be secure in their employment, because "sports entertainment".
The UFC wants to be the WWE. It has the same business model and the same promotional model. The only thing that saves the UFC is that fighting is entertaining, and the fighters are compelling athletes willing to fight for peanuts.
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