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When you see the perfect third baseman in your mind, who do you see? Schmidt with his compact swing, as perfect as a short right hook? Brett turning on a Goose Gossage fastball? Brooksie diving to his right and throwing off-balance? Mathews hitting another titanic home run?
It's what Bill James wrote back in the 1990s -- MVP voters prefer the surprise player over the consistent great player. Tony Gwynn hit .350 and created enormous value, but the writers would shrug and say, "Eh, Gwynn always hit .350 every year," and give the award to McGee or Pendleton.
Boggs probably has a lock on best player to never even receive one MVP first-place vote.
He played Fenway the way Clapton played guitar.
IOW, not as well as Richard Thompson.
I grew up a White Sox fan in the 1980's. When I picture a third baseman, I think Steve Lyons, Tim Hulett, Eddie Williams, and Kenny Williams. Vance Law is the best case scenario.
so I would not be so harsh on those mvp voters back in the day. this was a real tough thing to reconcile. how much credit do you give a player when away from his favorite ballpark he's a slightly average player but nothing remotely special?
I know I am possibly being construed as 'anti-boggs' or some silliness. all I am trying to do is provide some context to the 'How could a guy like this never get a first place mvp vote?'
awwww damn. there's no chance that vlad makes this, eh?
Harveys, "MVP voters don't properly appreciate OBP" is a different argument than you first made, which was that Boggs wasn't that great away from home,
It could have been worse, you might have grown up a Cubs fan. That would have gotten you Lenny Randle, Ken Reitz, several seasons of Ron Cey (in his statue period), Keith Moreland and, completing the Chicago MLB double, Vance Law. To be fair Ryne Sandberg played third in his first season with the Cubs, and put up a 90 OPS+
Cey was my favorite player growing up so I always feel the need to defend him :-)
I didn't like the Cubs, but anybody who saw what Ron Cey looked like and didn't root for him is dead inside.
EDIT: And why did I always think Kevin Seitzer had an L in his name?
That's unfair to Cey -- yeah, he was fall down left/fall down right on defense, but he posted OPS+s of 118, 107, 94, and 138 (about half a season of PAs) in his 4 year with the Cubs. His defense - or really, his range, he remained pretty sure-handed and reliable - dragged him down overall (-1.4, -0.7, -0.9, and -0.9), but he was generally just shy of a 2 WAR player most of his time (1.7, 1.6, 0.9, and 1.8).
Where? Kelvin Seitzer? Kevin Seltzer?
pretty clear you are trolling. I never mentioned batting average.
five red sox hall of famers who were on team and playing in 1982.
yaz, rice, boggs, tony perez................?
yaz,rice evans, boggs, tony perez................?
i don't think it's necessary to re-open that can of worms.................
As a kid of the 80s, I can say that Boggs was universally viewed by the unwashed youthful masses as among the best in baseball and a no-brainer Hall of Famer.
The Red Sox had a total of five Hall of Famers appear in that game for them
And now I'm really confused. I thought it was Seltzer. I don't know if I misread a baseball card or heard it that way, although googling leaves me even more confused because I found at least one card that spelled it that way. Typo? Two different people? Aaah!
a non-boston viewer could pretty easily come to the conclusion that boggs was a 'fenway creation'
Harry Caray said "John Krux" for the first few years of Kruk's career, so I thought I had an error card the first time I saw this "John Kruk" spelling.
Player OPS PA HR RBI BA OBP SLG BAbipJose Canseco 1.005 715 48 140 .314 .400 .605 .344Mo Vaughn .993 2301 119 396 .326 .419 .574 .385Wade Boggs .991 3803 52 388 .369 .464 .527 .386Nomar Garciaparra .954 1370 52 235 .336 .385 .569 .341Reggie Jefferson .928 818 25 123 .345 .384 .544 .400Tom Brunansky .915 1036 47 176 .293 .366 .549 .309Dwight Evans .898 3385 134 498 .284 .387 .511 .304Mike Greenwell .869 2564 64 387 .312 .379 .490 .312Jim Rice .866 2797 101 458 .312 .369 .496 .336
Which leads me to the story of my sister being totally flabbergasted when she went to the Football Hall of Fame and discovered that Franco Harris was not, in fact, an Irishman.
but here is something to consider. boggs slugged .527 in fenway. without looking name the ballparks where boggs had a slugging percentage of over .450 in more than 100 plate appearances (which is a really low bar correct?)
two. two ballparks.
now just think of the number of ballparks where boggs slugged LESS than .400 in more than 200 plate appearances
seven. seven ballparks
look, I know all about sample size and all the other factors at work in this type of snapshot comparison
but THIS is what people saw. he was EXACTLY what the red sox and were concerned about. he poked at the ball and drew walks. he played mediocre defense. he couldn't run. nobody could anticipate that he would exploit fenway as he did. that he would become awesome playing at home
sorry you could not resist being insulting
and i am done here. so if you are going to continue with more insults then your 'target' won't be available
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